Catholic Church debate featuring Stephen Fry – official version

The Catholic Church's past crimes should be judged in context

Speaker: Ann Widdecombe

Anne Widdecombe suggests that in trawling all the way back to the Crusades to find something to blame the Catholic Church for, Christopher Hitchens merely demonstrates how flimsy his argument really is. Why would the Pope have hidden 3,000 Jews in his summer palace during the Second World War if the Catholic Church was an antisemitic organisation? Admittedly, the New Testament does blame a Jew for the death of Christ; but it also blames a Roman, Pontius Pilate. Are we to infer then that Catholicism is anti-Italian as well as antisemitic?

Widdecombe insists that the actions of the Catholic Church in the past should be judged with a degree of historical relativism; they were not the only people to murder and torture those deemed guilty of wrongdoing. She entreats us to imagine a world without the benefits of the Catholic Church, which provides hope, education, and medical relief all over the globe.

Ann Widdecombe

MP for Maidstone and The Weald

Jackson Black (04 Dec 2009 12:00pm)

Although they were destroyed, the Archbishop and Ann redeemed themselves in the final summations.
Kevin Francis (12 Jan 2010 12:41pm)

This motion is invalid for the UK, but unfortunately not for the World. The Catholic Church is a spent force in this country, for which we should give thanks (to each other, if not to God).
Rob Maclaren (12 Jan 2010 1:06pm)

Kevin, you've obviously never seen a mass at one of the many Catholic churches across the UK. If you had, you would have seen a flourishing religious institution that does a great deal of good in this country. People need to recognise the enduring importance of the Catholic Church, and there is no better place to do this than in your local community. Perhaps this would then allow people to appreciate the global impact of Catholicism that Archbishop Oneiyekan so clearly outlined.
Chris Richardson (08 Feb 2010 9:39pm)

A pretty unintelligent use of statistics in the final vote graphics. For: Down from 678 to 268 - "change -20" Percentage drop -60 Against: Up from 1102 to 1876 - "change +34" Percentage rise +70 Undecided: Down from 346 to 34 - "change -14" Percentage drop -90 We know how you got to these figures but how meaningful are they without, at least, a starting point and an explanation of what "change" means. Surely there can't be an ulterior motive for not displaying something more meaningful.
Chris Richardson (08 Feb 2010 10:15pm)

Ok just realised a negative drop is a positive but you know what I mean.
James Vandeweerd (12 Feb 2010 4:14pm)

When I first heard of this debate, I had seen Stephen's initial segment first, and I entirely agree with his standpoint of the Catholic Curch. After veiwing the entire debate, I think the re-vote should have taken place after the closing statements because the Arch-Bishop made a very good point in his closing statement. While I do not agree that the Catholic church as an institution is entirely a force for good in this world in the past, I feel that the church does have it's place in the world. Faith does have it's place in the world, unfortunately most that preach it seem a bit misdirected. The church does do some good things in this world. Although this may be the case, seeing the fanaticism it causes, especaily in the US, against homosexuals (just to name one point) I can not believe that as a whole, the catholic church is a force for good in this world.
Kris Manimala (08 Jun 2010 12:50pm)

1. Let us face the facts: The teams were incomparable. On one side you had an Archbishop and an ex MP, and on the other you had two professional entertainers! When deciding a matter as HUGE as this in a timespan of about 30 min, it is showmanship that counts more than facts. 2.The Church is a 2000 year old institution comprising of 1.6 billion people. To err is human and even parties/countries that are no older than 50 or 100 years have committed mistakes that are horrific. So to defend such a massive institution which is under constant media scrutiny is no mean task. More importantly, its the easiest thing in the world to throw mud at it. 3.As long as you keep harping on the so called mistakes (Crusades/Inquisition/Condoms) so much time is spent in refuting these that we never come to the beauty beneath it. Its like a rose that has been covered in a layer of dust - you need to blow away the dust to appreciate the beauty of the flower. 4.Votes represent the effectiveness of argume